Vikrant Host

Welcome everyone to Execution at Scale. As you know, I'm Vikrant Neb, also known as Vic or Robby to some of you, founder of Leanify and Kurieta. This series exists because the best conversation in this industry happens in hallways and over coffee and not really on stage. So, I feel like keeping that transparency, honesty and impromptu is the best way. And me and Tanya have had multiple of those conversations. So, joining me today is Tanya, a founder of Prepared Leader. Tanya is an industrial engineer who has spent her career at the intersection of operations, leadership across the supply chain, warehousing and distribution industry, helping operators build the kind of leadership that actually holds up under pressure, right? So, we are executing at scale and executing under pressure always. So, Tanya, welcome to Execution at Scale. I'm very excited about this session given we're both industrial engineers. So, before we deep dive into it, anything else you would like to add on, if I missed anything about you or in general?

Tanya Guest

No, I appreciate the introduction. Thanks so much for having me and I agree, very excited about this conversation as we have a lot of passions around this industry in common.

Vikrant Host

Well, awesome. So, Tanya, tell me, let's start by knowing a little bit about your journey. I always like to do that. Some of our speakers may know about it, some of them don't. So, I would love to know how you ended up founding Prepared Leader and your journey.

Tanya Guest

Yeah. So, like you said, my degree is in industrial engineering and I started straight out of college working for Target at one of their 1.2 million square foot regional distribution centers leading a team of warehouse workers. So, it's the first time I'd ever worked in a warehouse and definitely the first time I'd ever led a team. I'm very, very thankful that I started my career at Target because they had a really amazing frontline leadership development program. On my very first day, this was way back in the early 2000s, I got a binder that was about this thick with all the SOPs that I needed to learn. I was paired up with a certified trainer who had received training on how to train other leaders well. And it was just really fantastic in regards to setting me up for success in a brand new role in an industry that I hadn't worked in before because I had just started my career.

And so, spent eight years at Target, both in operations, spent a little time in HR, then went to Coca-Cola and did more leadership in supply chain and also some project management. Then after those two positions, I was able to take some operations roles in small and medium sized businesses here in the Phoenix area where I live. So, it was really great for me to be able to get perspective on how a big corporate entity runs, but then also get experience on how smaller companies run as well.

And in that time frame, I had found out about folks that do consulting and it just sounded so fun to me. I love solving problems and digging into challenges to do everything that I can to find solutions. And so, the idea of being able to do that on a regular basis, as well as train leaders, it just sounded like a dream job to me. And so, I decided to found this company, which started in March of 2024. So, we just hit our two-year milestone, which is so exciting. It's been such a wonderful journey and I've been able to work with just the greatest clients and leaders that just melt my heart for how much they love their people and they love their operations. And so, being able to support them and help them feel more equipped and confident with leadership tools that they can use right away to lead their teams at a very high level is just a really fulfilling thing for me and gives me a lot of meaning in the work that I do. So, I feel really grateful and blessed.

Vikrant Host

That's wonderful. And I'm sure that is an exciting journey coming in from working with Target, where things were maybe a little bit more organized, you are trained way before you start working, and then seeing some of the SMB operations and seeing that, oh, everyone is running around. Why? So, I'm a little bit curious to talk briefly, like you mentioned, about the leadership training program and everything at Target. So, what did it look like just at a high level? I know that we can probably talk about it for hours.

Tanya Guest

Yes. So, how it worked is Target's regional distribution centers at the time were all set up in a prototype format. So, every regional distribution center that you would go to, anywhere in the company, they all looked exactly the same. And that allowed them to be able to standardize SOPs that could be used through their entire DC network. It was really amazing for them to be able to roll out changes very quickly because everyone was working the same way, following the same processes.

So, essentially, I learned all of these SOPs in partnership with my executive trainer, and all the SOPs were documented online. So, we would read through them. Then in our workbooks, in our binders, we would answer questions to ensure that we grasped the knowledge. Then I would go out on the floor with that trainer and then we would actually use the information that I just learned. So, it was really great at kind of this process of read the information you need to know, understand it and reinforce it through filling out these workbooks, then really apply it on the floor immediately with this trainer. So, it was really a great experience to be able to have that solid foundation.

And, because this was my first job out of college, I just kind of assumed, oh, cool, this is how training and onboarding works. But then as I went farther down in my career and met other people in other companies, I realized that my experience was very much the exception rather than the norm. And so, that's really what I look to try to change is to help leaders be able to have the tools that they need to lead their teams well. Because what I found is a lot of companies promote from within, which I love and I'm definitely a huge proponent of growing your talent within the organization. But too often, we kind of assume that if someone is a really great order picker, then they'll also be really great at leading order pickers when the skill set is completely different. And so, really helping companies understand that there are specific leadership skills that are necessary just like any job. You need to learn the technical aspects of any job that you have, leadership is no exception. You need to be able to equip these individuals with the tools that they need to drive great accountability, to set expectations, to have conversations, to reinforce those expectations, to drive really positive business results. All of those are tools that need to be learned in order for them to be highly successful in their roles.

Vikrant Host

Yeah, and like, you know, what you just said, like an order picker, if they're good at picking orders, thinking that they would be managed, like good at leading pickers. And it also reminded me that I forgot to mention the title of the series, or like the episode, before we started. So, it kind of defines it too, why leadership is the hidden process problem, right? So, that could also be like in a process. So, when I started in operations too, as you know that I'm interested in engineering as well, everything was like, okay, more operations driven, process driven. But over the career, I also realized that other things, except line balancing, time studies, six sigma, also, everything in our business, or even around us, is like a process. So, kind of like even promoting someone is kind of a process, and maybe sometimes you cannot have a step-by-step process of like, okay, this is how I would promote, but having some sort of general framework, right? So, what are your kind of thoughts on that? I guess what I'm trying to get at is that how leadership, operations and everything, they kind of work in a synergy, right? So I want to know your thoughts on that a little bit.

Tanya Guest

Yeah. So, one thing that I have seen happen rather frequently in a lot of companies is, to your point, there's a lot of effort put into maybe bringing in lean or six sigma projects or new software and technology, and creating and spending all this money and time and resources on optimizing the operation. And all these great projects are done. But then when it comes to actually executing it and setting up the people for success who will actually be executing this new process every day, who will hold their teams accountable to that every day, there's kind of this disconnect.

My favorite analogy, I like analogies and stories, is if you think about it as a relay race: if you're running in a relay race, when you hand the next person the baton, you don't want to toss it at them, you don't want to throw it at them, you want to make sure that their hand has a full, strong grasp on that baton, and then you let go. And that's where I think there's kind of a miss sometimes, these new process, project, software rollouts happen in one meeting or one training, and then it's just expected that everybody fully understands exactly how to do it and how it impacts their day-to-day work and how they should reinforce this with the people on the floor. And it just doesn't work that way. There needs to be constant follow-up, constant communication, constant support for these leaders, because a lot of times the company may feel these initiatives are really great and transformational, but when you're a leader and you already feel like you have 50 things on your plate and you get one more thing, it doesn't feel like a good thing. It should, but it feels like, great, now one more thing I have to pay attention to or manage, instead of really seeing how it can benefit them and the business and their work.

So really making sure that when we develop these SOPs, when we use great tools like Lean and Six Sigma, that we're not just piling it on these frontline leaders as one more thing they have to do or manage, but really helping them understand, everybody wants to know, what's in it for me? We're all kind of selfish at the end of the day, right? Help them understand what's in it for you, to help you feel more confident when you lead, to drive stronger business results, to create a stronger team culture and morale and engagement. How does this tool help you do all of these things so that we actually make your job better, easier, faster, more fun? So I think that's where we can do more work, to have that synergy between projects, project management, operations and leadership and the folks that are directly on the floor doing the work.

Vikrant Host

I totally agree with that. And, you know, as we always talk about most of the things, you and I always chat, because I've had a similar journey. So, what I'm intrigued is, when we think about overall, like you said, one more thing for a frontline leader or a founder to have to do, since you just said that it was a two-year anniversary for you, right? How are you kind of juggling that? I guess sometimes making a framework for your own self becomes a little bit more difficult than making a framework for someone else, which I realized while working on building my company. So what are your thoughts on that?

Tanya Guest

Yeah, that's such a great question, because I am 100% feeling that right now. So I think it's funny, you know, the whole analogy of the cobbler's kids don't have shoes, it's very much how I feel in my business. I actually went to a conference back in February, and a woman gave a keynote talk, she's actually the CEO of a cleaning company in Australia, a seven-figure cleaning business, super successful. And I went up to her after and said, thank you so much for your message, a lot of what you said really resonated for me. I think where I am at in my business right now is I really need a "me for me." What I do for clients, I need someone to help do for me. So I actually started working with her, she's now my business coach, to help me talk through some things, a fresh pair of eyes, a great experienced mind who has been there, done that. Working with her has been such a bright light and such an encouragement to me.

So I think that's the thing we all have to remember, we don't have to be on these journeys on our own. There are so many people we can learn from, so many different networks we can find. I'm very grateful to be part of a couple of different associations locally where I've met amazing people I can bounce ideas off, both from an operational and entrepreneurship standpoint. I also do some professional speaking, so I've got a network of professional speakers I learn from. So it's just really important to know we don't need to feel like it has to be something we do on our own. It is important to build a community and support each other, because we're all on our own journey in different ways. And I think sometimes it's easy to look at people's LinkedIn profiles and think, oh my goodness, they're so successful, but there's a lot happening behind the scenes that we don't know about. Our own journey is our journey, and the pace at which we learn and grow is up to us.

So that's something I'm actively working on now, how to find resources and great people I can work with to cover the areas of the business I'm not great at. I'm an ops girl, I love operations. So now I'm looking for people who can help me with the sales and marketing side of things. All the things, I like doing those things, they're kind of fun, but is that the best use of my skill set? No. So how do I make sure that I'm maximizing my strengths to make the most impact in my business and in the businesses of my clients?

Vikrant Host

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think that's what I found out too, sometimes coaches need coaches. Because, as much as we know that perspective of having a fresh set of eyes, what I realized, between the time of just consulting and building my companies and businesses, is sometimes you get so involved in your day-to-day stuff that you lose a bit of your creative thinking. And also, sometimes it is about just a fresh set of eyes, I think that's the right way to put it too. When someone asks me, okay, why do you need a coach or mentorship or a consultant? That's what I say, it's not like you don't know what to do. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. But sometimes you know, okay, this is what I should do, but really being able to do it, it's like hiring a coach while you're going to the gym, right? If I know that my trainer is going to be there three times a week, even if I don't go to the gym five times a week, I've paid him a couple hundred bucks, I really need to go.

Tanya Guest

Yes

Vikrant Host

Same thing with, I started learning golf recently, as you know. So I had to reschedule my last week's session, and he was like, I'll do it for free this time, but next time I'll charge you for the session. He's not trying to be, I see why he's doing that, it puts you in discipline, right?

Tanya Guest

Yeah, that's also there.

Vikrant Host

And it's funny you said that about best use of time. So I have multiple mentors, coaches, everyone I like, different ones in different areas for different purposes. I was talking to one of them a couple weeks back, and she said, what are the two things, top two things, that you wish you got done last year, because there are some things you keep putting off. And I was like, you know, see, this is why I don't do it, because one, I don't enjoy it. It's not like I don't know how to do it, I know how to do it, I can tell you how to do it, but I don't want to do it. I don't even want to train one of my employees on how to do it, I don't like it. And you know what happened just because I shared this with her? I knew the problem, I knew the solution, just because I shared it with her and she said something, I got it done within a week, and it felt so good and refreshing. Like eat the frog in the morning kind of thing.

Tanya Guest

Yeah, that is a book.

Vikrant Host

So I totally agree. So, going a little bit more into specifics now, as you said, you work with, even before the company side, you work with smaller operations, and even now you're working with leaders who need the help. So what are some of the common leadership failures you have seen? Let's say specifically on the operation side or even in general management, it could be anything. I mean, one of them, like you talked about, maybe around promoting within the company, right, an order picker becoming a supervisor or leader of the pickers, most common things that exist. So what are some of the other ones? I'm really intrigued.

Tanya Guest

Yeah, I would say two of the biggest ones and most common that I see. One is a lack of clarity around performance expectations. And two, a lack of having the difficult conversation when it's needed. So first, sometimes leaders have a tendency to just kind of assume that someone knows what it means to be highly successful in their role, or what it means to really win in their role, because they feel like, okay, I hired them into this position, so they should know exactly what I need them to do, without actually specifically telling them those things. I see this, unfortunately, most often with CEOs that I work with, they hire people, and then someone isn't performing exactly how they'd expect, and they start to feel really frustrated, and instead of having the conversation, they let that frustration build and build until they start talking to me about it. A lot of times they're at the point where they feel like, that's it, I just need to let this person go and move on, when the conversations haven't even taken place in order to give that person a chance to meet expectations.

And so that goes to the second thing, being able to sit down with someone and say, hey, this specifically is what I would expect you to master in your job. Here's where you're not quite meeting that mark. Here's what I need you to do better. Here's how I'll support you and follow up with you over the next whatever timeframe. And here's where I will follow up with you to let you know if I'm seeing the progress that needs to be made. Those conversations can be so uncomfortable for leaders. And what I've discovered is I don't think it's because they don't care about those folks, I actually think it's because they care too much. They don't want to feel like they're putting too much expectation on someone, or they're afraid someone may feel attacked in the conversation, or that the person won't like them anymore.

And so that's why I coach leaders to have the conversation in a very fact-based way, that way we're taking the emotion out of it as much as possible. Obviously we're human, so there's going to be some emotion involved, but we're taking the emotion piece out as much as we can, and saying, here's specifically the behavior I have seen that needs to be different. Maybe these are the tasks or responsibilities that you are or aren't doing that need to change, but really sticking to the facts. That way nobody feels like it's a personal attack on them as a human, or on their personal characteristics, it's truly addressing the specifics of the behaviors or tasks, actions or responsibilities that person needs to do differently. And helping someone have the support and feedback they need to understand where the bar even is. That's one thing I tell leaders, we should let our team know where the goal is before they even step out on the field. So how do we make sure it's very clear what winning looks like in their roles?

And that's why, when I work with clients, one of the first things I typically do is help them create what I call a job profile. Everybody calls it something a little different, but something very specific that lists out exactly what is expected of you in your role, both from a tasks, actions and responsibilities standpoint, and from a cultural standpoint. So if you're saying these are our company's core values, how would that core value show up every day? And help bring that home and make it more practical than just kind of a vague word on the wall that core values can sometimes be, really help them understand how they're driving business results and impacting culture, and how they do those things in their job.

And sometimes people think, oh, we have job descriptions, well, that does that. But a lot of times job descriptions are pretty vague, because you're posting them on LinkedIn or Indeed and you need somebody who knows nothing about your company to understand what that job does. You need something a lot more specific, using the specific tools, software, programs, whatever your company uses in order to execute. You want that in a job profile or some kind of document that defines success in every role in your company, because that's where it starts, setting those clear expectations, the basis of accountability. So I think those are two of the main leadership challenges I've seen, from individuals, frontline leaders, all the way up to CEOs.

Vikrant Host

Yeah, I have kind of two thoughts after that. Even when we especially talk about SMBs, job descriptions generally don't mean anything, I guess, because there are so many times you have to fill in for things you're not supposed to, even if we say, okay, we are using these five tools today, we might have to use another five. Even now, I can share a little bit about my company, we use other AI tools etc, and it was like, then there's another one coming up, and we've probably changed our subscriptions to them three times in the last one year. And I am at a point where, when it comes to having different tools, I cannot keep up with that. It's funny, I was having a conversation with my co-founder for Leanify this weekend, and he was like, okay, we use HubSpot as our CRM and everything, and we can set up this automation, that automation. And yeah, I know we can, but the thing is what we are trying to do in terms of automation is changing every four weeks, because when you are in that growing phase, in that building phase, things are so dynamic. So that's another very big challenge, the adaptability, that flexibility needs to be there, to build that resilience

For example, just this last two days, I've talked to two people who are potential guests on the podcast, and they're like, okay, you should have a scheduling link. But, and this is not related to business, but again it's an activity I'm doing, like the podcast, this is the fourth episode, and this was not even going to be an ongoing thing, I don't know if you know this or not, but it was only a five-episode thing, which I thought I would do. But I started enjoying it, I started having the conversations, people were liking it, and I was like, okay, I'll do this ongoing. And that is why there was a gap of almost, I think the last one I did was almost five or six weeks back, but I was doing one every week, and I paused because I had to tweak it. It's not that straightforward. Yeah, I know I can do a Calendly link, I use it for my work, but there is a reason I don't have it here.

So those are also very interesting challenges, because what I'm trying to get at with these conversations is that everything changes, right, when you are a solopreneur versus you hire your first employee, 5, 10, 20, you can do it based on number of employees, or based on revenue, but whatever the growth path is, things work very differently. And more than anything, I feel like having that agility, being able to adapt, because we live in a very fast-changing world, it's changing every second at this point. We might get out of this call, our phones are on silent, who knows what would have happened in that one hour. So it's very interesting, and COVID was probably one of the times that taught a lot of us about being flexible, agile, having systems that can quickly turn. So I guess I went a little too much with it, but you get my point. What I was trying to ask is, how do you think about building in that agility, that flexibility along with process, what's a good approach or thought process behind it? Because I think that's another thing leaders need to be trained on, and today it has become an integral part of leadership.

Tanya Guest

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think what's so important is getting the right people with that mindset. So as you're building your team, really making sure that if your business is one that is changing on a very regular basis, due to technology, due to new clients, whatever the case may be, in your interview process, in your core values, make sure it's really clear that we need people who not only are comfortable with change and flexibility, but people who actually enjoy that and thrive in environments like that. A lot of the tools that I use when working with clients come from the Entrepreneurial Operating System, or EOS. One of the things they talk about is the importance of your core values, and how your core values should attract the people who are in alignment with those core values, and even, maybe more powerfully, repel the ones who aren't. So if you're someone who wants to come and sit at your desk from 9 to 5, that's fine, but then go find a company where you can do that. Make sure that if that's not the kind of person your company needs, your company makes it very clear that we are constantly looking to do things new, better, differently, so just because we're doing something one way one week doesn't mean we'll still be doing it the same way the next week. Really making sure that people understand this is our normal business, it's the norm, not the exception, and really try to attract the kind of people who would say, that sounds cool, I don't want to be bored doing the same thing every single day.

So that's why I always start with the mission and core values, because I think so many of our business decisions should be run through the lens of those things. Sometimes I think people might think it's just kind of fluff, it doesn't really do much, but they should be such powerful tools in your organization, to define what you do, why it matters, and attract the right people and repel the wrong ones.

Vikrant Host

This reminds me of something very interesting. As you know, in my early career, from operations, consulting, everything, there was somehow an overlap between marketing and sales as well. For a very long time, what people thought about mission, vision and values was as a marketing tool, like, this is what our clients need to hear, this needs to be, whatever, and they get so technical about it, and also like, your mission is something which... whatever, I'm not going to get into technicalities, but you're so right, even if you don't write it, even if you don't put it on your website, don't talk about it on LinkedIn, whatever, it doesn't matter, it is something that drives your core values, your company's core values. You should know it, write it somewhere, put it in front of your laptop or desk, whatever, but those are the things that, as you said, drive decision-making. That is so true.

So I was a guest on someone's podcast two days back, his name is Mark, by the way, tower of pizza, Mark, and he asked me, okay, how were your mentors, etc. So, I have learned something from someone, my dad once told me, when I was like 14, 15, one thing you need to do is that whatever decisions you have made throughout the day, just make sure they're ethically right as well. And that has become a very core value of not just me but the entire company, that if one of our team members' mom is, let's say, fighting through cancer or something and they need time off, we say, okay, go take one month off, because not everything is about the numbers, etc. And, like you said, we are very direct when we post our job description, but obviously we post about the bad things, they are not the good ones, right? So sometimes people get scared too, but that is fine.

It's just longer to hire, and I'm totally okay with it. I want to fill a position this month, we can get it in three months, we can survive, but the whole aspect of hiring wrong, training them, it's not good for them, it's not good for us, right? So another one I believe in is under-promise, over-deliver. So I don't want you to think that we'll never sleep, but that's not the reality either. Right now in India there is a heat wave going on, it's pretty hot there, and everything, but no office closes. We made our office work from home for the next three months, everyone, they just work from home. We said no one has to come, only twice a month, and if needed we'll let everyone know, but if you really want to, because for some reason you cannot work from home, we have an office you can come to

My sister saw it posted on different places, we didn't post it on... I think we did, and she was like, is this your company? I'm like, yeah, you should, I told you we should work together, come over. Because, you know, if you are working, you have to have a balance. We are not trying to hire slaves here, but the thing is, okay, you are passionate about it, when you're going through change, you have to work a lot, but when things are stable, you sometimes don't have anything to do. I've had my team members come to me and say, we've been feeling like we need more work, because I've been working maybe only 20-30 hours a week, even if we don't do 70, that's fine, but at least, you know, because they enjoy it, that's another aspect. But sometimes we put people in positions they're not a good fit for, and I'm sure you've seen something like that. And I have a very funny analogy which I'll say after you answer this, but what are your thoughts on that, putting people in wrong places, because sometimes people also don't know whether or not it is good for them or not. What are your thoughts or some experiences around that?

Tanya Guest

Yeah, actually, that's one of the reasons I do like using some of those tools from EOS. EOS calls it the "right person, right seat," RPRS. So how do we determine that we have the right person in the right seat? Well, one, we want to determine we have the right person, meaning does this person belong in our organization at all, and there's a tool EOS uses called the People Analyzer, where we basically put down all of our team members and all of our core values, and we evaluate: does this person consistently model our core values, yes or no, and you have a conversation around that. So that's how you determine if you even have the right person for your company.

Then, once you've determined that you do, you want to determine, are they in the right seat? There's another tool EOS uses called GWC, which stands for Get it, Want it, and Capacity. One, we want to know: do they get it, do they understand what is required of them to perform at a very high level in this role? Do they want it, do they even want this job, are they enjoying and passionate about it, does it best suit their strengths? And lastly is capacity, and that's the one that can be more challenging, because this is where you might have to make the tough call that we have a great team member, they model the values, but they don't have the capacity to succeed at a high level in this role, it's just not a fit for their skills. The best example I use for this is myself: if someone were to put me in an accountant seat, I would get what I needed to do, I wouldn't really want that position because I know that's not where my strengths are, and from a capacity standpoint, my brain doesn't think that well when it comes to that, so it wouldn't be right for me or the company for me to be in a bookkeeper or accountant kind of position.

But it's not only helpful for the person to have the self-awareness of what their strengths are, and to make sure their manager knows what they want to do, and to not get complacent in their role and just stay in it because they've done it for a long period of time, but really take ownership of their own career. And then from a leadership perspective, having the courage to make those decisions that might be difficult at times, but finding people the right seat within the organization that is the best use of their skill set, their passions and their energy, so that they are contributing to the best of their ability to the organization and enjoying themselves at the same time.

Vikrant Host

Yeah, for sure. And it's funny, earlier I was telling you something I was putting off which I ended up doing, that was related to accounting and bookkeeping. But, I didn't know you went through EOS, I did it partly, I'm very familiar with EOS as well, and I generally try to convert some frameworks into a fun analogy, because sometimes our job, operations, everything, is a lot of work, everything can be too serious and boring, and I try to joke around as much as I can. So the analogy I use is: if you ask a monkey to swim and a fish to fly, it's not going to work out the same. But finding that right fit is also important, it's not that people cannot do it, I do believe you can train someone to do whatever, but the thing is, will they be good at it, so they enjoy it?

So that's also part of, for example, our core values, when we are hiring someone, we say, okay, we are hiring you for this position, do you know what you're free, you want to learn why? Come in, go learn why in our company or otherwise, because one of my companies is so diverse, people can do pretty much whatever they want to do. One of my best employees joined me as a graphic design intern, and today he's a project manager, he manages a team, and he sometimes reviews legal contracts for me. So that's also the thing, when you let people be free a little bit too, but that does require a lot of patience, I would say. Sometimes you lose time and money doing that, especially as a smaller company, because we have only enough people to barely be able to do their jobs, and if you're letting them lose to learn and all that, it does create a little bit of a void in what needed to be done. But if you are able to balance it, I feel we can create a very harmonious team, working in harmony, cultivation, growth, but it's definitely not as easy as it sounds.

Tanya Guest

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, because one of the most, I would say pretty transformational, books I read, rather earlier on in my career, was Strengths Finder 2.0. And what was really kind of transformational to me about that is, you know, I'm naturally pretty perfectionistic, and so I have a tendency to think about all the things I don't do very well and try to be better at those, which I think is a good thing, but at the same time there was a sentence in the book that really struck me, it said something to the effect of: you can't be anything that you want, but you can be the best at what you already are. And I just thought that was so powerful, because the point was saying that, for example, the accounting, if I were to spend hours and hours trying to learn how to be an accountant, I would probably get incrementally better because I would be learning, but for example I really enjoy public speaking, and I think I have some innate talents and abilities in that area, so if I were to spend the exact same amount of hours on developing that ability, I would get exponentially better, because I already have those raw materials of gifts in that area.

And so we want to make sure that our weaknesses are in no way becoming obstacles to our success, so we want to have some level of knowledge and capability. Like, I really do my best to make sure I understand P&Ls and budgets, so that when I'm working with my clients I can speak knowledgeably about those, but I wouldn't want to ever do their books. But then spend so much time learning and developing in the areas where you already know you have some natural gifts, talents and abilities, in order to really be the best in those things.

Vikrant Host

I mean, that statement, I think I will end up reading that book, and I need to get you my books on the next one, you can say this is the best book. I guess it all kind of comes down to having that right guidance when you need it, someone to tell you, all right, like, and another thing, which might be a little bit off topic here but kind of related, probably parallel, is we always hear the saying, you have always been hearing, it's lonely at the top, etc. And along with that, I just feel that getting good mentorship, etc, because you can find mentors anywhere, right, you could be part of communities, like you said. Let's say I'm part of this community now, which is a community of creators, I just started, I was never going to be a creator, like, this five-series episode thing, my team has been after my life for ten years, I was like, okay, I'll do it, but I ended up enjoying it. That's probably why they were telling me, because they know me better than I know myself. So I became part of it, but it is so good, right? I'm like, okay, trying to do this, I was not planning to do this, but it's like, someone who has done something already, learning from them is the best thing you can do, it puts you years ahead. And sometimes, as you come in new, you can tell a few people a few things too, actually told someone who has been doing podcasts for three years about a couple of tools that came out new, like this one we are using, Riverside. There's a lot of people who do it on Zoom, and it's set up, it's working, but it's nothing, no pressure, but this is a little better, this is how you do it. So it helps each other. Being in that community with similarly minded people is also very, very important, I believe.

But, a lot of our audience is specific to 3PL, as you know, so I just want to switch gears a little bit and use some examples of 3PL here. So some of the 3PL warehouses, and you're part of IWLA as well, not so many conversations happen around... I don't like to put it in terms of a "top three," you don't have to list top three, you can do two, one, or ten, but what are some of the top pain points around leadership within operations, and what are some of the challenges they face?

Tanya Guest

Yeah, I think a big one that I've seen in the 3PL space, and quite frankly I see it in a lot of small businesses, is the overwhelm, right, in this kind of startup phase, or maybe they're not even in startup phase, it's a smaller business, so you have a few people wearing a lot of hats, and really just the stress that can come from that. And that kind of goes back to what we were talking about before, really making sure everyone is clear on what their roles are and what they are owning, and if they're the right person to own those things. So I think it's important, especially for smaller-to-medium-sized 3PLs, to get really clear on their org chart, not only build what that should look like today, around who owns what functionally, but also build out where would we want our company to look like in the next year. I know this phrase can be so cliché, but we often do get so tied up working in the business that we don't raise ourselves high enough to work on the business, not allowing yourself to get so tied up in the day-to-day that you forget we actually want to grow this business and expand our clientele. So what are we doing to intentionally do that?

And I think another thing that is really helpful for businesses to do is set those goals, what do you want your revenue goals to be, how many clients do you want to have, things like that. And another thing I think can be a challenge is I think it's easy for us to start to get into a kind of scarcity mindset, where we start to feel like, oh no, I need business, I need clients, I'll take anything I can get, but then you may work with clients that aren't a right fit for you or your business, you might hire people just to get a butt in a seat when they're not the right person for your company. So really trying to think of your business more from an abundance mindset, of, we will experience this growth, we just need to have a plan for it, we need to execute the plan, we need to be clear on what our priorities are, and really work through that in a more structured and methodical way, so that your day isn't governed by what fire you have to put out today, but you're being significantly more proactive in how you structure your day and your efforts, in a way that will allow you to realize the business growth that you want.

So that's what I think are some of the biggest challenges I've seen from the people-aspect side of things, how to grow the team, when to grow the team, how to effectively clarify who owns what on the team, and then that way you know what your revenue coming in is, that's really the baseline, right, cash is king. We've got to have cash in order to get the right people on the team, hire the right folks, but also then find the right technology or the right equipment, whatever the case may be. So really just being planful about how and when you want to grow.

Vikrant Host

I like, started connecting the dots, the question I asked, but it kind of relates to it in a funny way. So we were talking about mission, vision and values, and in my mind, while you were talking about this, even bringing on business, etc, one thing I strongly believe and do is, not only my team members, but anyone I work with, be it my customers, my vendors, whoever, they need to align with my personal mission, vision, values, and my company's mission, vision, values are very similar to mine as well. So we say no very often, there might be a customer who might want to pay us well, whatever, but if it doesn't align with the long-term aspect, we generally say we might not be a good fit. I've talked about this to other business owners, leaders, entrepreneurs, and they're like, oh, you might be leaving a bit on the table, and I tell them, you know what, it lets me and the rest of my team sleep good at night. That's also one of my values, which my dad taught me, because, you know, I can get a client, it might give me a headache, it is fine, but it would take away that enjoyment a little bit, even if it's for an hour a week, I don't need to let that go. I'm happy with the money I'm making, as long as it's okay that one client isn't paying for my mortgage or something, okay, we can grow a little slow, that's fine too.

Tanya Guest

Yeah, sometimes it's hard to say, you know, the truth hits, it's hard, right.

Vikrant Host

Having every decision aligned with those values, like we were talking about, comes in here too, because sometimes when I am sitting through things where people talk about having an ICP, etc, honestly, everyone is just talking about, okay, this is the size of the customer, this is the revenue, this is the number of orders, this is the size, I want cold storage, I want freezer storage, and generally, whenever I'm having those conversations, in my mind it's going: yeah, that's honestly, according to me, 101, you can get that done, probably at maximum in a month, if you sit down and understand what your strengths are, etc. But I think aligning with your mission, vision, values in your ICP as well is important, making sure that, because again, as I was telling you, sometimes mission, vision, values gets mistaken for marketing, so people try to put it forward in terms of what their customers would like to hear, like, we fulfill everything in 10 minutes, or you call us and we'll answer your call every time. No, I don't want you to call me. My company's value is that you never have to call me. That's what my value is. My whole process is, okay, in the beginning you might have to call me or anyone in our company, but there are sometimes clients I have not talked to in a year and I'm still close to all of them. Today I called someone I hadn't talked to in like four months, one of my really big clients, and whenever we talk we never talk about work actually, because everything is set, it's running in its own synergy, and I never get crazy calls from my client saying, oh, this is not happening. Maybe in the beginning of the relationship, when the change management is going, implementation is going, but after those first three, four months, it is like that. So, my values, first of all, I'm not going to answer your call because my phone is on silent always. Second, the reason is I don't want to waste time calling you, and why would you want to waste time calling me, but the client really wants to hear, oh, Vic is saying call me anytime, I'll answer your call, but I don't say that, because it doesn't make any sense to me.

Tanya Guest

Yeah, I think we froze for a second, but yeah, I think it definitely all kind of winds down and comes together, as a full circle, if you may.

Vikrant Host

Yeah, absolutely.

Tanya Guest

And I think you really hit the nail on the head, in defining for yourself and for your team what your non-negotiables are, both for yourselves internally as well as your clients externally.

Vikrant Host

100%. So, I know we are almost nearing the time, I did have a lot more questions, we probably, this calls for a follow-up episode on our discussion, but I probably want to say, if you have to leave someone thinking, someone who went through this entire hour of us chatting, if you want to tell them one or two things they can do, something very simple, they don't need anyone for this, they can do this themselves over the next couple of days, what would it be?

Tanya Guest

Yeah, "we better leader," I guess, I think a couple of very practical things people can do: one, make sure that when you look at the meetings your team has, make sure every single meeting has a purpose, an agenda, and a leader. I think sometimes we can get a little loosey-goosey with our meetings, where it's a little too much just reporting the news and no one really got anything out of it, no decisions were made, things like that. But I think most people don't like meetings because they don't have those things, and that's where clarity begins, that's where you set the stage for what our goals are and how we're going to accomplish them, by making sure all your meetings have very clear purposes.

And then, I think a lot of operational teams have this, but if your team doesn't, I highly encourage a daily stand-up meeting at the start of the day. There are so many benefits to that, I think one very practical benefit is it makes people know they need to be on time. If your shift starts at 7 a.m. and everybody's huddled in your huddle area at 7 a.m., if you're walking in at 7:02, it's very obvious. So it's a very practical thing. But two, it's so important to let your team know, here's how I, as your leader, am going to define what a good day is today. I'm going to define that right now in this meeting, it can be a five-minute huddle, it shouldn't be a long thing, but let's set up the day in a way that the team knows, okay, if we accomplish these two, three, five things, we know we had a great day today. So everybody is on the same page in regards to what we need to accomplish. I think those are two very practical things leaders can do, even as soon as tomorrow, if they're not doing that already.

Vikrant Host

That's wonderful, and I totally agree, setting the tone right at the start of the day, I didn't think about it. Yeah, that will make people come on time too, I think I need to start doing that, I'm repeating like 4 a.m. every day.

Tanya Guest

I think I would like to add one thing too, because it kind of adds on to what you said about some meetings not having an agenda, and doing it without that. It also ties to one of the other things, sometimes we are so engrossed in our day-to-day stuff that we're not able to really see what we can do, and it also ties to one of the things I said, that sometimes we, as founders, know what to do, but we're not able to do it because we're in that box.

So what I've seen working a lot in 3PL warehouses and manufacturing as well, especially possible if you have a big office, but if we generalize it for businesses too, is just keeping 30 minutes in your day as a leader, where you just walk, go on the floor with no agenda, not saying, oh, this pallet shouldn't have been here, this tape is broken, this label isn't working good, just walk, take that time. Think of it as a nature walk, in a way, because what you're walking is something you've built over years, so first, appreciate it, so you feel good about all these sleepless nights. Second, utilize that time to just chat with people, you can just hang out with your order picker, or your manager, or anyone, just, hey, what's up, how's it going. 30 minutes isn't a lot, you can do it right after lunch, so you get some steps, it could be anything, early in the morning, later in the day, it's not going to stop your operation, it's not doing anything. What it's doing is three things: one, giving you free time to observe; second, getting you some steps in; third, also giving your team members a free space to say things they might not say in a structured meeting, and give them more confidence that they'll be able to say it to you when they need to. So, being more accessible, I think it solves a lot of things, just 30 minutes can change a lot.

Vikrant Host

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's what I would say. But yeah, I would like to conclude with the same...